Roscoe Green - Cotney Around the Globe - PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of an live interview with Roscoe Green with Cotney Attorneys and Consultants. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast.

Speaker 1:
Welcome to Roofing Road Trips With Heidi, explore the roofing industry through the eyes of a longterm professional within the trade. Listen for insights, interviews, and exciting news in the roofing industry today.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Hello, and welcome to Another Roofing Road Trips. This is Heidi Ellsworth, and I am with Roofer's Coffee Shop, where you can find all your roofing road trips from all over the country and Canada and you never know where. But today, we are with Roscoe Green. He is with Cotney Attorneys and Consultants. We've been doing some great things with Cotney. We've been doing Cotney around the globe because they have contractors and they have attorneys and they have consultants everywhere. I'm telling you. But today we're road tripping to Tampa, Florida to visit with Roscoe about what he's doing with construction practices. He leads that division at Cotney, and I'm so excited for this podcast today. Roscoe, welcome to Roofing Road Trips.

Roscoe Green:
Well, thank you so much, Heidi, for having me. I'm incredibly thankful and happy to be a part of this podcast. Really looking forward to an exciting conversation about what's going on in the market and how contractors can protect themselves.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. This isn't our first rodeo. You and I have also presented together. We were with the virtual IRE. And I just so love working with you, Roscoe, and I'm really excited to hear your insights today.

Roscoe Green:
Well, thank you, Heidi. I'm always thrilled to work with you. It's usually a great dynamic, a great team. We tackle the issues and we have fun doing it.

Heidi Ellsworth:
That's right, that's so true. I love that. So before we get really into some of these fun issues to talk about, I would love it if you would share with our audience a little bit about you, about how you got into construction law. Share with the audience a little bit about who you are.

Roscoe Green:
Absolutely. My is Roscoe Green. Heidi mentioned I'm a partner with Cotney Attorneys and Consultants, and I'm also the head of the Construction Practice Group. I've been in construction pretty much most of my life, well over 20 years. Got a degree in construction engineering from Florida A&M in Tallahassee, Florida. Go Rattlers. Licensed general contractor. I kind of grew up in the industry, started from a laborer, worked as superintendent, project manager, estimator for a large commercial company, and with my father's general contracting company as well.
Most of my practice, since I got into the legal field, it's been dedicated, obviously with my background, to construction law. Namely representing contractors and every now and then developers. But mostly your contractors, with the practice group, around the country. We're a national law firm and we tackle all different areas of the law. So there's a little bit about me.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah, and the thing is I love that you bring that up because Cotney is national. It's also international. You have offices in Canada, you're working across the globe to really be that advocate for the contractor. And of course, roofing is one of our passions, and the presence and what Trent and everyone at Cotney has done for the roofing industry is just incredible.
But I would also love for you to share... I don't know how many people know this, but Roscoe's grandfather was a Florida Supreme Court justice. And as you had said earlier, your dad had his own general contracting business. What an amazing combination for now you to be construction law lawyer. That's pretty cool.

Roscoe Green:
Yeah. Obviously I'm doing what it was meant to be. My dad was a general contractor and that's how I got into construction, but on the other hand my grandfather was a Florida Supreme Court justice. It's been a tough year. He passed away about 30 days or so ago. He was an incredible, incredible inspiration, not only to me, but to all within the legal community and people just in general. It was honestly an eyeopening experience.
As sad as it was that he passed, it really opened my eyes to all the people he touched. I could go on, but he was a leader in the fight for equality and justice. He came up during the segregation era. He was the first African-American to win a statewide election in Florida, and appointed by President Carter to the 11th circuit. I would talk to him all the time and he would tell me about his meetings with President Carter. He literally learned how to practice law from Thurgood Marshall.
That's what I grew up around, and didn't realize that he had inspired and all of his accomplishments until I actually got in to law. It really made me understand, wow, that's incredible. It was tough, but he was well-respected on both sides of the aisle as well. The governor lowered the flags throughout the state for him. It just shows you what you can do, one, and two, how you go about doing it. Looking at his race, I hope one day I can end my race in a similar fashion where I'm well-respected, you treat people fairly and humbly and you fight for equality and justice for all. So he's been an incredible inspiration for me and my family and others throughout the country.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Wow, I love that so much, Roscoe. I was incredibly close to my grandparents too, and so I understand that inspiration and coming together. I can just see where he'd be so proud of you. To be able to carry that into really working with people every single day who... I don't know, I grew up, my dad was a general contractor too, and I don't think a lot of times they get represented in a way, that advocate way. And as you and I have talked about many times in the past, there is such a need for a larger level of diversity within construction too. So you being able to bring all of these great things to law, to contracting, everything together, I just love that. I'm incredibly inspired at this moment. Thank you.
So let's talk because I want to come back to that in a little bit, but I would really love to also talk about what you've seen this last year with COVID, with working with your contractors and really what are some of the key lessons learned and what are some of the things we're able to take forward?

Roscoe Green:
Yeah, absolutely. I think we could all agree that this was an incredibly challenging year that we just came through. One thing that it really taught everybody on both a personal and professional level is you got to be able to adjust and you have to be able to adjust quickly. That really will dictate the success of your personal life and your family.
As the head of the practice group and as a partner of the firm, from a professional standpoint, you've got to be the leader of your company. You've got this crazy pandemic going on, but at the same time it would be very easy of a business owner to go into a hole. But you have your employees and you have all of these different things that you, as a business owner, are thinking about.
You've got all these different laws that are changing and orders that are coming out. Projects are being suspended. What do I do? Am I entitled to my money? It was something that we've never been through. Most of the contracts didn't have pandemics as part of the inclusion of their force majeure provisions, so there was a lot of that. There was a lot of am I an essential worker, you know?

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah.

Roscoe Green:
We did a lot of fighting around the country to make sure contractors were considered essential workers. Trent's a lobbyist and Brian Lambert heads our governmental affairs department and I'm a lobbyist myself. And so we did a lot of reaching out and writing letters to different elected officials and really conveying the message of roofing contractors and other contractors as well. We've got to keep working here and roofers are essential. It was challenging to say the least, honestly, just staying on top of all the different laws in all the different states.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I tell you what too, and when you're looking at the construction industry state to state, like you're talking about, there is so much changing so fast. I mean, when you look at what Florida is doing and just opening and that you don't have to require vaccinations compared to Oregon, we're still wearing masks. There's just a lot fluctuating. So what are some of the things that you're seeing, that you're helping contractors with and seeing as trends going forward? How are they handling all of this constantly changing regulations?

Roscoe Green:
Well, it's tough on multiple facets because one, we're in a contractor's market right now. There's a lot of work going on and it's hard to slow down. Some of these contractors are just trying to get the work done, let alone they've got all these new laws that are being thrown at them. They were thrown at them during the year, and now we're coming up on the end of legislative sessions for most of the state legislators around the country. Now they're going to have another round of law thrown on them.
What we were seeing, and what I'm continuing to see, is contractors coming in and saying, "How do I protect myself on the front end of these projects so that I can maneuver?" Because some of these laws and material shortage, labor shortages, will put you out of business very quickly if you don't have those protections in your contract. So right now from a practice standpoint, we're seeing a heavy influx of, "Hey, can you look at our contract? What do we need to change? What do we need to implement? How do I protect myself? I don't want to be in that situation again?" And so that's the trend. A lot our contractors are really focusing on the front end of the project and making sure their paperwork is in line while trying to stay afloat with all the work that they have.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. It was really interesting, I was talking on another podcast earlier that when you look at the demand and how high the demand is, and then you look at the availability of materials and how far down that is, really people aren't realizing what the gap is. It's not just, "Oh, we have a material shortage and so we're down this much," it's when you add the new demand on it. And so contractors are really having to make sure that they check their contracts, their paperwork is right, and I know that's what the part you lead with Cotney. Can you talk a little bit about the importance of just how... I would think it'd be daily renewing and looking at your contract.

Roscoe Green:
Yeah. In construction terms, your contract is the foundation. It's what everything is built on. Your rights rest on what is in the contract documents. If you don't even know or have an idea, or you haven't gone back and revisited and said, "All right, what has changed?" Then you're behind the eight ball, really, because like I said, these laws are coming out left and right. It's only going to continue after these legislative sessions as members are figuring out and passing laws, a lot of them as to how do we address some of these issues that were created during this market.
I couldn't imagine going into a contract without a price escalation clause that would allow you to get a change order for material price increase. I had one contractor tell me, he said, "Man, I went into Home Depot and they won't even put the price for lumber up there because it fluctuates so much." I couldn't believe it. So I went online, I looked, I'm like, "Wow, a sheet of half-inch OSD was $50," and it might be more now, it might be a little less. But $50 for a sheet of plywood, oriented strand board. Could you imagine taking on a contract where you've agreed to a set price and you get even a 10% increase in material pricing? That could be your profit.
And on of that there are material shortages, like you've mentioned, there's labor shortages. How are you getting this work done? What's going to happen if there is a suspension on the project? How will it be addressed? Understanding things like that.
Another thing that I think will become a hot topic is, because of these material price increases, you're going to start seeing, and we have started to see, a lot of contractors purchasing material upfront for the whole project. Then you have to store the material. What does the contract say about that? Who has the risk of loss of that material if something happens? Is it covered by insurance? Who's purchased that insurance? Those are the type questions that we get all the time, and those are the type things as contractors you really need to be focusing on to protect yourself. Think about worst case scenarios and what you went through. Take a look at your contract. If it says nothing about it, you should probably address that, you know?

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. Well, and I think too, one of the things I've really been noticing, having owning my own business, is this whole vaccinated, non-vaccinated. How does that work? And not just within your employees, because that's an issue all of its own, but also within the greater country, globe, however you do it because there's so many different... With the variants coming in, you just nailed it on the head. Are you protected with your employees? Are you going to be able to keep working? We're already in a shortage. How does that work? What are you seeing from some of the contractors as how they're dealing with that and labor overall?

Roscoe Green:
One, because it's a contractors market, I'm seeing contractors be very picky as to which projects they take on and they are very selective, and they're willing to put the money upfront to invest in legal advice up front to make that determination as to whether or not this is a good project, to analyze the risk, and to make a good assessment as to whether or not you can get that project done. It makes no sense that you go and bid the work and you just don't have the horsepower to get it done.
Looking at the schedule, a lot of these contractors are requiring copies of the schedule upfront on the project so that they can really make sure that they can get the work done and try to balance it with the other projects that they have going on. I'll be honest, it's a continuous grind. It's a continuous, how do we get this? How do we become better in this market? How do we advertise better? How do we bring in more talent? Because the good contractors are typically retaining their employees. And so what are they doing in their business practices in house to keep those members on staff? I think that's really what we're seeing a lot of. More focus on the front end and in house and being more selective.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah, and retention. Retention of your good employees. That kind of leads me to what I wanted to talk about. We kind of talked about this at the beginning with your grandfather, but you have been super involved with the Association of Minority Contractors. Your a general counsel in Florida. I know you and I work on a lot of diversity initiatives together, which I love. To me, that is what the step we have to take. We need to be inviting all talent into construction. What are you seeing on that front right now?

Roscoe Green:
I see, honestly, a big push for diversity, and it's a bit overdue, honestly. But we're seeing it. And it's not just contractors. We're seeing it across the boards. Companies are realizing the important of diversity as we become a more diverse society. We talked about this before. It's not just racist, it's gender, hair color, literally it spans all different facets. And you have to really focus as a company owner, and make an emphasis as a leader to identifying your shortcomings and making your team more reflective of society because the younger generation, it's incredibly important to them.
We've talked about this Heidi. Those stats that you had. I still am mind blown by some of the stats that you showed me on what the younger generations focuses on. It's not so much money, it's diversity, it's mentoring, it's all of these different things that you're not... That when I came up, it was how do I become successful and make a great living financially? That's not the case anymore. It's more what is this company doing to make me happy and make me feel like I'm a part of something great? And so that means bringing in a diverse management team, which would allow you to connect with your employees better, will help with your OSHA training if really identify and connect with your employees. You can get on a level that helps them understand the training that you're giving them.
Let's be real, with social media it's so easy to find out which companies are doing great things for their employees and which ones aren't. The roofing industry is competing with other industry to attract this top talent that is short right now. You've got to be thinking about these things and diversity. It should be at the forefront.

Heidi Ellsworth:
It should, it should. And I look at how much just the overall branding and image of women has increased in roofing since National Women In Roofing started. And we need to do that same thing across the bend. Everybody needs to be seeing what a great industry roofing is and that everyone is welcome. But I don't know if we've done that in the past. And so I'm with you. I see that big push in all ages, all types of people, everything, all geographical, race, it doesn't matter. We need talent and we need folks who want to be part of something pretty special, which I think we can all agree, the roofing industry is.

Roscoe Green:
Oh, very special. We hold it very dearly.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. So as we kind of talk about this too with contractors, when we're looking... And I know Cotney offers across the board so many different on types of information. We're really on a roofing road trip, I think we just heard some sirens. As we're looking at all these different areas for the contractors, and I know you focus in on the contracts and on the construction and the liens and all of that kind of stuff. But overall, Cotney offers a pretty amazing subscription plan that allows contractors to work on diversity issues, to work on their employee handbooks, to work on how they're recruiting, how they're hiring, retention. Can you share a little bit about that overall subscription plan and how that's been helping? How you've seen it help because you've been doing this for a while now, Roscoe, with Cotney, how it's helped contractors.

Roscoe Green:
Absolutely. One of the biggest complaints contractors and businesses have is the cost of legal services. The subscription plan, as a contractor, I get it. You're bidding projects, you're trying to calculate your overhead, a home office overhead and all of these different things. What the subscription plan does is it allows you to scale that. You know each month you're going to be paying a certain amount so you can legitimately calculate that and include it in your costs for the project accurately. There's nothing worse than having an issue or needing something done and the cost exceeds what you really expected it to. So that's what this does. The subscription plans are incredible tools. I do not know of another law firm that offers a subscription plan.
It creates a better relationship between us and the clients too. They don't feel like they're going to get charged for every call. They pick up the phone freely. It's included within the subscription. You got a question? "Hey, Roscoe, what should I do here?" That's the kind of relationship we like because it allows us to grow with our contractors. If you're a small contractor, there's a subscription plan for you. If you're a multi-million dollar company, there's a subscription plan for you.
As we're moving forward with the new administration, one of the things that we're going to start seeing is OSHA pickup, and we've already started to see that with OSHA inspections and citations. So the subscription plans, certain plans cover OSHA defense up to the citation. That's the platinum subscription plan. Then the gold subscription plan will include your safety manuals and your employee manuals and handbooks, and then updates to that throughout the year, which is incredibly valuable right now.
I mentioned earlier, a lot of contractors are really doing the risk analysis and assessment on the front end of projects. Many of our subscription plans have contract review where they send us a number of... Literally every single project they'll send us a contract and say, "Hey, what are my risks?" While they may not be able to negotiate the terms of the contract, it at least allows them to assess and put a cost towards that risk and make that decision as to whether or not I want to take on this project, which will save you a lot of trouble and headache. It really does.
I used to bid projects and so I know. I can't tell you the amount of times I hear contractors say, "I didn't even look at the contract. I just looked at the plans and the specs and gave a price." How? What? So what this does is it allows you, the subscription plan, to send all of those contracts to us. We'll review them and take a look at, give you a risk assessment

Heidi Ellsworth:
I think it's brilliant. I worked with Trent at the very beginning of the subscription program. We worked together and I just think it's brilliant. It helps so many contractors out there to really be protected, to have an advocate, and I love it. I love it.
I love the fact that it goes across the whole thing no matter what you need, whether it's manuals, OSHA, employee manuals, contracts, liens, all of the different things, litigation is obviously not always in the subscription, but it's part of that bigger picture of really trying to avoid risk and not get to litigation. To not have to do that.

Roscoe Green:
Absolutely. And you're right, there is litigation aspect in there, which is incredibly unique because that's even harder to predict, the cost of litigation. We do have packages that include collections, your demand letters, filing suit to collect on money is owed. A lot of our roofing contractors are really taking advantage of that aspect of it. It's an incredibly valuable tool to have if you're a contractor.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I love it, I love it. Well, Roscoe, thank you. This has been amazing. I'm serious, you have inspired me so much today with your family and everything you're doing with the roofing industry and all construction. I know you work in many different areas, but of course we love roofing, so we always have to talk about that. But any last thoughts for the contractors out there on trends or some things that they should be kind of thinking about in the back of their head?

Roscoe Green:
Yeah. I'll say this. I think moving into 2022, we're going to start seeing a shift of money going towards the non-residential sector. If you've never done a commercial project, that's something that you should start thinking about now. As material prices continue to rise and inflation continues to rise. I heard this week they're getting ready to raise interest rates and so the residential market, I think, is going to slow it a little bit moving into 2022. So I think we'll start seeing a lot of contractors looking at other means to do commercial roofing projects or whatever.
If you're going to do that and you've never done it, I would advise I think it would be a great idea for you to speak with someone. Obviously we want you to come to us, but you need to speak to a construction attorney and really understand it that so that you... You don't want to dive into something head first actually knowing what you're getting yourself into, because there are a lot of rules, there are a lot of reporting requirements and regulations and things of that nature.
The last thought is you got to be nimble. The laws are going to continue to change, stay up on it. And make sure that you're aware as a leader of the company what's going on. It's incredibly important.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I agree, I agree. That's why we see so many people coming to the coffee shop. We see so many people engaging with Cotney Attorneys and Consultants. Those are the companies that are able to move forward in this environment. And I just have to say, I love that nugget, differentiation. Really looking at diversifying your business and staying with the times because it is going to change. People are going to start traveling again and the residential market might slow a little bit, but now we have all this money coming in from the administration, potentially, that's going to really looking at renewables and clean energy and how that's going to work with the roof. Great advice. Great advice.

Roscoe Green:
Absolutely. Well, thank you again, Heidi, for having me on. This has been really fun as usual. So anytime I'm happy to join again. I really do appreciate it and I love what you're doing.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Roscoe, thank you so much. And thank all of you for listening. We love these kinds of podcasts. We try to bring you some information, some nuggets and trends to really... But more than anything, to celebrate the people like Roscoe in the roofing industry who are doing such great things. So be sure to listen to all the podcasts under roofing on Roofer's Coffee Shop under our read, listen, watch section. You can find our podcasts there. You can find them on your favorite podcast channel. And be sure to subscribe so you never miss one. Thank you so much for being here today. Have a great one and we'll see you on the next Roofing Road Trips.

Speaker 1:
Make sure to subscribe to our channel and leave a review. Thanks for listening. This has been Roofing Road Trips With Heidi from the rooferscoffeeshop.com.