Drain Lead

With all the concerns from manufacturers & distributors about selling lead products (drain lead, pipe collars & flat sheets)what is your stance on this issue? How do you protect yourself? In an area where asphalt roof systems (e.g. BUR & Modifieds) are very popular lead is still widely used in flashing details. I'm sure that if the public realized the amount of run off that passes over drain lead & into our storm drains there would definitely be some people raises their eyebrows! What do you all think? Any solutions? Has anyone tried alternatives and had success?

Florida is now requiring Roofing contractors and others to take special courses concerning lead and it poison. You will face fines if you don't have the certs. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

I gotta stick with Stephen and the other nay-sayers on this one. I've played with lead gun shot, lead pipe flashings, lead drains, fishing jig heads all my life. While some might argue with me, I think I'm perfectly fine.

I have so much lead in my basement it would surprise all but the most dedicated shotgun reloaders, and my reloading room has always been in a poorly ventilated basement.

When you look at an 80 year old lead flashing, ask yourself how much lead has washed away?

As for shotgun pellets, and waterfowl hunters being required to use steel, or non-lead shot..... when you consider the tons of small lead pellets that are deposited into marshland, and the feeding habits of ducks, .... it makes sense. A lot of lead was being ingested by waterfowl and while the actual damage being done over the vast majority of waterways was insignificant, it did pose a small problem in some of the most heavily hunted marshlands within the major flyways.

At least that's the opinion of this far right wing nut job.

They should wear gloves, but only to keep the acid on their skin from discoloring the lead.

Colpaw Said: With all the concerns from manufacturers & distributors about selling lead products (drain lead, pipe collars & flat sheets)what is your stance on this issue? How do you protect yourself? In an area where asphalt roof systems (e.g. BUR & Modifieds) are very popular lead is still widely used in flashing details. Im sure that if the public realized the amount of run off that passes over drain lead & into our storm drains there would definitely be some people raises their eyebrows! What do you all think? Any solutions? Has anyone tried alternatives and had success?

Romans discovered that mixing lead with wine not only helped preserve wine, but also gave it a sweet taste and succulent texture. Chronic lead poisoning has often been cited as one of the causes of the decline of Rome. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

Fl Roofer said " That said IMO the whole lead poison thing is minimal at best. Just a move by special interest groups to wipe out the use of a very versatile and long lasting material " Thank you for responding. Welcome back to Florida. The obvious incongruencies of your explanation require clarity. Your position , lead is or is not extremely poisonous to little children? Who are the special interest groups you mentioned? B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

Sorry for the delay in a responding I have been busy with my move and am now interminably ensconced in the FL office.

Fl Roofer Many lead flashing's are exposed. Lead pipe flashing's, Tile lead wall and transition flashing. The question was about lead flashing's and poison from lead based products. To deny that lead is poisonous well .....??? Please reference your sources for your IMO.

Stephen Mea culpa. It is the paranoid idea Fl roofer threw out implying a conspiracy concerning lead poison. He needs to clarify his position. Fl Roofer please reply. I invite you to clarify if you can.

I was not talking about flashings, I was targeting drains. Do you ever actually read peoples replies, or is it just the inwardly digesting bit you have such a problem with?

I am not suggesting there is a conspiracy to eliminate lead from our lives, but merely that it would make more economic sense for the building industry if we were to be forced to utilise something less indestructible.

I do not suggest that lead is not poisonous, only that it is a lot less harmfull than the "authorities" would have us believe. I for one would far prefer to work around lead than fiberglass insulation for instance.

"Mea culpa".....you should employ that as your new handle.

Colpaw

I mention lead shot in the form of split shot for fishing. Maybe the use of it in shotguns is to prevent the toxicity of the pellets being digested when the bird is served up? Rather break a tooth on a ballbearing than swallow a piece of lead, etc.....

It's not your fault Terry. Humans cannot resist shiny. It's almost a physical response -- humans automatically assume something that gleams is fancy and valuable. Hell, most people subconsciously think their car runs better after it's been washed and/or waxed. "There's no way this can be the same shitty 1988 Geo Metro I was driving before! Just look how shiny it is!" Likewise, go into any high-end shopping mall, and every surface you look at will be gleaming its ass off. Very young kids are set on the floor with two plates. One shiny the other plain white. Every time the kids will go and stick their tongue in the middle of the shiny plate licking it. The white plate stands alone. Shiny is a great selling tool. Humans cannot resist it. Led Zeppelin, lyrics Stairway to Heaven " There a lady who's sure all that glitters is Gold" B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

Woody,

Now that you mention mercury, I can remember finding a vial of it in the basement. My dad had a small baby food jar about 1/3 full of it. I poured some out on my hand and it stuck to a ring I was wearing. Well it made the ring shine so about once a month or so, I would go down and dip the ring in the mercury. I did this at least 2 dozen times or so..... :woohoo: :dry:

Lead can be replaced in flashing vent pipes by using chem curbs or pitch pans.As for the drains i don't know any other products that can work as good on MB or BUR.

As I mentioned in my previous post, Wakaflex is a potential lead substitute. It's been proven to work in Europe for some time (but then, socialism was supposedly proven to work in Europe, too.) In the 80's can vents with a malleable aluminum base was marketed as a (slightly) cheaper substitute for lead. I don't know why that didn't work out, it could have been that they required the roofer to carefully form it or creases developed.

Just as an aside, lead is the second most toxic heavy metal (behind arsenic) the third is mercury. Back when I was in third grade, the teacher passed a vial of mercury around the class so we could all see and hold this "liquid metal". A friend of mine enjoyed it rolling in his hand so much he took about a third of it and poured it into his thermos and took it home with him. Whenever I went over to his house, he would take it out and we would play with it. I wonder if, 40 years later, he is still around. Also, rubbing mercury on your private parts used to be the treatment for syphlus.

With the art of foretelling the future by means of signs; divination. The future and beyond points to " Polyethylene" as the most popular plastic polymer to replace many forms of the old traditional roofing products. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

Colpaw,

I do not know of any substitutes for lead flashing in the BUR and Modified roofing industry and I don’t believe we will see any. The benefits of lead use, IMO, certainly out weigh the concerns. The benefits being; ease of use, flexibility, compatibility with asphalt based products and most importantly, the acceptance of its use within major manufacture’s systems specifications. Those reasons alone are enough for me to continue using lead. (Of course, until I am told not to) An important side note: some estimate that the lead supply is less than 50 years due to the increase of use by battery companies. Having said that, the more important question, IMO, would be to ask who here would use a product if one was available. That would mean CHANGE!!

With regards to lead used in roofing.....is there an alternative?? Lead is used for soldering, pipe flashings, lead flashings, counterflashings, etc. Can we substitute something else for lead? What happens if/when lead is banned from use in roofing assemblies? What is the alternative?

In days of yore, we utilized scrap lead as cinches for our counter flashings, basically I guess for its mallability, and its compatability w/ other metals, i.e. copper, galvanized, etc.